Comments on: Before the Iraq Study Group http://rjz.verminbrewing.com/2006/12/06/before-the-iraq-study-group/ Ideas about travel and everything else, collected while traveling the world Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:53:13 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Traveling Hypothesis » Now it’s the democrats turn http://rjz.verminbrewing.com/2006/12/06/before-the-iraq-study-group/comment-page-1/#comment-638 Traveling Hypothesis » Now it’s the democrats turn Sat, 05 May 2007 00:59:44 +0000 http://rjz.verminbrewing.com/2006/12/06/before-the-iraq-study-group/#comment-638 [...] Bush hesitates to explain exactly what the victory he’s trying to avoid actually looks like, I’ve said before that pulling out right now could have dangerous consequences. Forget civil war, we could be facing [...] [...] Bush hesitates to explain exactly what the victory he’s trying to avoid actually looks like, I’ve said before that pulling out right now could have dangerous consequences. Forget civil war, we could be facing [...]

]]> By: tim r http://rjz.verminbrewing.com/2006/12/06/before-the-iraq-study-group/comment-page-1/#comment-505 tim r Wed, 13 Dec 2006 02:18:02 +0000 http://rjz.verminbrewing.com/2006/12/06/before-the-iraq-study-group/#comment-505 There is nothing good to do next---we have already lost any hope of really improving Iraq. From a realpolitick perspective--because I think Bush has fucked everything up so badly we cant really act coherently from any other perspective--I think we have no choice but to pull out but back with military aid--ie weapons--the Kurds in the north and the Sunni in Central and South Iraq over and against the Shia in the south. There won't be a democracy--the last thing the US should ever want is Shia control of all of Iraq. They'll vote to become Iran East. My reasoning is as follows: (1) This war was about the oil. (2) The oil fields are in the north and center and the ports are in south. (3a) A pipeline to the north through Turkey is years away, and there is the Turkey/Kurdistan conflict to be concerned about there. (3b) A pipeline to the west would have to go through Syria. (3c) All those routes lead to the Mediterranean, which is what the American and Saudi Oil companies don't want. The European companies don't mind as much. (4) As bad as the Sunni states are on human rights and freedoms, I think the Iranian Shia are much worse. (5) Of course this means dealing with same faction that kept Hussein in power. Surprise, surprise. War, the first refuge of the incompetent, has changed nothing. Better yet, we pursue an alternative energy and conservation program and do without Iraqi oil on the markets. But I ain't holding my breath. Besides, we'd have to convince China and the rest of the oil markets to forgo the oil from Iraq. That's not going to happen. There is nothing good to do next—we have already lost any hope of really improving Iraq. From a realpolitick perspective–because I think Bush has fucked everything up so badly we cant really act coherently from any other perspective–I think we have no choice but to pull out but back with military aid–ie weapons–the Kurds in the north and the Sunni in Central and South Iraq over and against the Shia in the south. There won’t be a democracy–the last thing the US should ever want is Shia control of all of Iraq. They’ll vote to become Iran East.

My reasoning is as follows:

(1) This war was about the oil.
(2) The oil fields are in the north and center and the ports are in south.
(3a) A pipeline to the north through Turkey is years away, and there is the Turkey/Kurdistan conflict to be concerned about there.
(3b) A pipeline to the west would have to go through Syria.
(3c) All those routes lead to the Mediterranean, which is what the American and Saudi Oil companies don’t want. The European companies don’t mind as much.
(4) As bad as the Sunni states are on human rights and freedoms, I think the Iranian Shia are much worse.
(5) Of course this means dealing with same faction that kept Hussein in power. Surprise, surprise. War, the first refuge of the incompetent, has changed nothing.

Better yet, we pursue an alternative energy and conservation program and do without Iraqi oil on the markets. But I ain’t holding my breath. Besides, we’d have to convince China and the rest of the oil markets to forgo the oil from Iraq. That’s not going to happen.

]]> By: erin http://rjz.verminbrewing.com/2006/12/06/before-the-iraq-study-group/comment-page-1/#comment-491 erin Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:20:34 +0000 http://rjz.verminbrewing.com/2006/12/06/before-the-iraq-study-group/#comment-491 Very thoughtful article. It's good to have people in the world like you who can speak intelligently on this topic rather than people like me who bury heads in the sand. I like to think of the "Iraq study group" as a group of 5th graders working on a social studies project. Sometimes reality is just too much to bear, especially when it comes to so many people dying. Very thoughtful article. It’s good to have people in the world like you who can speak intelligently on this topic rather than people like me who bury heads in the sand. I like to think of the “Iraq study group” as a group of 5th graders working on a social studies project. Sometimes reality is just too much to bear, especially when it comes to so many people dying.

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